An interview with The Empty Standards

An empty standard is a beer bottle relieved of its contents. Add the definite article, and The Empty Standards are Aaron Mallin, Graham Crellin, Rich Bolton, and Sam Klassen. The band released their first, self-titled album in December 2009. Two years, three days, and sixteen hours later, I had a chance to meet with Aaron and Rich, shortly after the release of their second album, “Waiting Out the Flood.”

SL: So tell me about the name—the Empty Standards. What’s in a name?

AM: [laughs] well, the name was picked originally because we had a show, and we needed a name for the band, and we were a 3-piece pretty much at that point—Graham was playing with us a little bit—ah, we drank Standard Beer. We were drinking a lot of it at the time. [shrugs] Yeah, we were in a pinch to pick a name. So Sam looked around the shop we were playing in and saw a couple of empty Standards. It kind of stuck. It was actually never supposed to last as long as it has.

SL: The accidental nickname that becomes permanent?

RB: Well, in the next few shows the Uptown [Magazine] listed us that way, and when it happens enough times, you know, there’s no switching after that.

SL: So the name isn’t indicative of a moral philosophy?

AM: No. It could be a double entendre, I guess. I find that people who aren’t from Manitoba—since the beer’s only made here—they have no idea what a Standard would be anyway. And they’re usually the ones who think the name is clever and deep.

SL: And the Lion on your album?

AM: The Lion is on the Standard bottle, and we borrowed it to suit our needs. I also have an affinity for lions, I guess. I think they’re pretty cool.

SL: Let’s talk about lyrics. I get a strong sense of narrative. For example, Sleepy Town is clearly telling a story. Let You Go is telling a story. Tell me something about the songwriting process.

AM: Those two songs specifically, I wrote the lyrics and had a basic arrangement. Lyrics for me—Sleepy Town, I was going through a tough spot, and so that song has some literal meaning. Let You Go—I try to write songs that are based on experiences that I may not have had personally, but express feelings about those incidents.

SL: Writing about the Every-man?

AM: Yeah, the Every-man for a lot of it. I try to do that—to take myself out of a lot of the writing, although I obviously have to keep myself in there. It is very personal, but I try not to be—

SL: Yeah. You work at a florist, so every song’s about flowers?

[All laugh]

SL: So how about instrumentation then? Especially when a song is birthed out of one person, how does it get taken to the point where the whole band really owns this song?

AM: Well, originally, the reason we got together was because these guys could play music I’d come up with. I’d bring a song to the band, and everybody would jam it out. Everybody writes their own pieces. There’s rarely any disagreement on what everybody’s parts are. I think we all have a pretty good idea of what we’re going for.

RB: I think that’s part of why it works is that when we started out, it’s not like we were super amazing players who could play anybody’s stuff. We just meshed naturally in our sound, in what we envisioned to hear. That generally describes most of the songs that are written. For some, the process is a little bit different, and I think that’s probably how it is for a lot of bands—or at least for bands that I would like to listen to—it’s not so specifically arranged.

SL: So, shifting gears a little bit, I’m curious to know about what sort of books you guys read, or have read. Got any favourites? Authors you love?

AM: I tend to read science fiction. I also like a lot of historical fiction. I guess I like fantasy and surreal sort of things. [laughs] I really don’t read as much as I should.

SL: Don’t worry. This isn’t the literary version of a trip to the dentist, where I’m going to scold you for not flossing.

AM: [laughs] You got me. I’m not getting away with this.

RB: I’m a sucker for reading books about nature. Historical ones, too, I guess. I’ve read a number of books that take place in the Depression Era, or times when people were living off the land. The wilderness, and someone who went through some great trial. You know, I probably romanticize that era.

SL: One of the few that romanticizes the Depression?

RB: [laughs] Yeah, I guess so.

SL: OK, if we think about music, writing, painting—it kind of all exists on this continuum of artistic or self-expression. It some ways, it’s not easy to differentiate between them sometimes. What are some of the ways that different forms of artistic expression inform each other? For example, what are some of ways that literature spills over into music, or music into painting?

AM: Personally, I grew up drawing and into art. Later, in high school when I got into guitar, that took over. And I used to write a lot when I was in my—

SL: Teen angst?

AM: [laughs] Yup, the teen angst. I wrote a lot. And the music took over the art in a big way. Writing became a way to express myself. But I find that the correlation between them all is, drawing was my meditation, when I could become so focused on one thing. Guitar took that place to the extent that I pretty much stopped drawing after that. It’s my main source of self-expression and meditation. Writing, well, it’s cool to be able to create something.

SL: When I listen to The Empty Standards, I hear some Country, I hear some Rock n’ Roll. To me, that seems like a pretty good picture, abstractly, of what it means to be a Manitoban. Smooth and rough. What does it mean to you to be a Winnipeg band?

AM: I don’t know what it means to be a Winnipeg band, but I do know that the music we play is hugely inspired by where we live. It’s part of the music we’ve grown up with. Whenever people ask what kind of music we play, I’m trying to coin “Prairie Rock”. It’s where we’re from. We’re not big city people.

SL: So, is that what “Roots” music is?

RB: That’s an interesting question. The more I’ve thought about it, I think Roots is music that draws off of Country, Blues, Folk, and Rock n’ Roll. And Rock n’ Roll is drawing off of Blues structure, right? So I mean, while you can get really creative and come up with original sounds within that, it’s kind of like a big umbrella. So people start talking about “Roots Rock”—we’re often called “Roots Rockers”, or “Roots Folk”. There’s all these different things, whereas I see that as separate from, for example, Bluegrass, which grew out of a certain tradition over a certain time period. So if you play Bluegrass, it’s very specific as to what you’re doing, the structure and progressions. Those are longer traditions that have largely stayed true to themselves. On the other hand, Roots is a broader thing, and there’s more latitude for different types of creativity. That’s how I understand it, anyway.

SL: Yeah. For example, you either sing Gregorian Chants or you don’t, right?

RB: [laughs] Yeah.

AM: The other thing about Roots is that it stems from wherever your roots are. Your music grows out of where you are. So Roots could be Blues in the South. Winnipeg and the Prairies have such a huge mixture of peoples who have come through here, and then there’s that grander thing of, well, we’re all country boys.

SL: Let’s talk about influences. I hear a little more Tom Petty and Dylan than I do, say, Daft Punk or Gwar. Who would you say has influenced The Empty Standards?

AM: Absolutely. Personally, my influences starting out were Johnny Cash and Hank Williams. They allowed me to believe that I could write songs myself. You know, the simplicity of lots of it helped to get the ball rolling for me. Then Tom Petty and JJ Cale, and a lot of classic rock. I actually listened to a lot of Hip Hop throughout high school, and so I do enjoy that. But the music was certainly inspired by an older generation of music.

SL: Who, I think it would be safe to say, also have been influenced by Country as well.

AM: Yeah. For example, Dylan was hugely influenced by Woody Guthrie. That’s just the progression of music.

RB: I agree. I think generally we’re influenced by older music. As the bass player, the grooves that I’m trying to achieve are more the simplistic groove that’s really going to catch you, more than trying to do something hugely expressive that’s going to be so different. I think there’s beauty in finding something that’s simplistic, but original.

AM: Our music isn’t trying to be smarter than anyone else’s.

SL: But I think out of that comes something organic and harmonious. OK, moving to the next question, it’s tempting, at times, to think that musical entities like Lady GaGa and Rebecca Black become famous, while The Empty Standards remain low profile. In fact, Uptown Magazine called you “One of Winnipeg’s best-kept secrets”. You could say, “Yay, we’re one the best,” or you could say, “Hmm, we’re a secret.” What are your thoughts on this?

AM: It has a lot to do with the fact that we don’t really put ourselves out there like a lot of bands. If we really were pushing to be as commercial, then maybe we’d be better known. But we don’t really have anyone working for us to promote our stuff.

SL: Or lots of cash?

AM: Right. And they’ve developed a look.

SL: You don’t wear Lady GaGa outfits on stage?

RB: Haven’t yet. But don’t hold me to that—no, just kidding. No, really, the music industry is a huge machine and really controls things. If you want to continue to be an original band, you really have to pick how you’re going to enter into the industry. Even we, on a really small scale, have had times where we found it just wasn’t about the music anymore. But for people like Lady GaGa, she’s a smart and talented person who can sing, and she had people who said, “OK, we can market this.”

AM: She also busted her ass for years before making it.

RB: Yeah, and when you get to that point, you’ve got to be willing to go with that, with whatever’s going to be the most marketable way. You’ve got to be this malleable artist. There are bands who have a say, but that’s a whole new level of superstardom.

SL: Would fame come easier if you were all mildly cute 13 year-old Siamese twins?

[All laugh]

AM: I don’t know. Obviously, if we all sat down and decided that we wanted a look and a style—maybe even go to the point of hiring somebody—we might be more successful. It would be a package.

RB: For me, I enjoy the times when we create music, perform our music, and get our music to reach people’s ears—that’s what makes me happy. It’s not about the personal fame. Personally, I feel sorry for people that are famous. I feel like [hesitates] it would just be scary [laughs].

SL: If you could choose a band to do a cover of one of your songs, what band would it be, and what song?

RB: Like a band now?

SL: Oh, dead bands are OK, too. I mean, they’re not being raised for their ghoulish final tour, don’t worry.

AM: Ah, jeez. I’d love to hear The Band play a couple of our songs.

SL: You mean the band, The Band?

AM: Yeah, definitely high on the list. Playing Love You All the Same.

RB: Especially Bob Dylan and The Band, playing that one. That sound that he’s got on Highway 61 Revisited would be great.

AM: Yeah.

SL: I was trying to imagine early Chicago doing a cover, when they still used those sweet horns. That horny—no, not horny… hornish?

RB: [laughs] Yeah, that horny sound.

SL: OK. So, Rich can grow a mean mustache. Is that ever a source of envy in the band?

RB: Well, have you taken a look at Graham’s? [shows photo inside CD]

SL: Ah. That’s big.

AM: Gigantic. So, are you ever jealous of his mustache, Rich?

RB: No, to be honest, all the times we’re eating together and seeing how much food gets stuck in there...

AM: It’s just gross.

SL: OK, I want to play a quick game. I’m going to call out a word or an idea, and one of you will fire back with the first thing that comes to mind. There is no right answer. OK, Tupak Shakur.

AM: Hip Hop. No, fuck, that was terrible.

SL: It was the warm-up. YouTube.

AM: Promotion.

SL: Winnipeg.

AM: Home.

RB: Yeah, community.

SL: Willie Nelson.

AM: Hero. The kind I’d like to meet.

SL: Rich’s mustache. Wait, apparently pale by comparison.

AM: No, bold.

SL: Jack Layton, while we’re on the subject of mustaches.

RB: Good man.

SL: OK, and wheel barrows.

AM: Good tool.

SL: Right. And, last question. Many of Shelf Life Magazine’s readers are Americans. What is something you’d like to share with American readers about the Winnipeg music scene, and about The Empty Standard’s place in that music scene?

AM: Well, for the most part, the whole Prairies and the Breadbasket, we’re no different from each other, just living on different sides of an imaginary line. I think our countries’ music crosses over well. If people can get over the “differentness” of Canada, you know, because really there’s no difference. Maybe on a political level. But people are people, and music is a universal.

RB: I’d agree. I’d say a lot of the time, people think North of the Border, and they think igloos and penguins. I’m generalizing, and there are lots of bright people in the States. While Canada has a lower population, it has a rich arts community, and Winnipeg really crystallizes that. It has a sense of community and groundedness, and I feel that in our music. There are Canadian bands from the Prairies that tour all over the Southern States, and they’re really well received. People may not always think to look North for it, but it’s there.

AM: This place has a lot to offer.

SL: Great. Thanks a bunch guys, and congratulations on the new release.

You can check out The Empty Standards at their website: www.emptystandards.com or on MySpace at: www.myspace.com/emptystandards. Both of their albums, including their latest, “Waiting Out the Flood,” are available through their website.